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Ruiner Member |
posted April 15, 2003 10:33 AM
  
Why haven't they done this yet? Shouldn't DC keep on collecting golden age material but also do the same for stuff thats currently in continuity? They could start with all the revamps that ocurred in the mid eighties. I'd kill for a hardcover Byrne Superman,Flash or Batman. IP: Logged |
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NecessaryImpurity Member |
posted April 15, 2003 12:30 PM
There is the the Sandman Library, a complete reprinting of the Sandman series, available in both HC and SC. There are the ABC "Books" (Promethea: Book1 , Book 2, Book3; Top Ten: Book 1, Book, 2; etc.). Those are complete reprints of each title, also available in HC and SC. The second HC of Green Arrow comes out shortly. The current Green Arrow series will be available in HC thru issue 18 or so when that happens. Certain mini-series have been collected into a HC, such as "Batman: Dark Victory" and "A Superman for All Seasons". Attractive, high-quality reprints for lots of material is available. They just don't call them "Archives". IP: Logged |
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Michael Bise Member |
posted April 15, 2003 12:58 PM
HC Byrne Superman!!!!! ------------------ Michael IP: Logged |
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Ruiner Member |
posted April 15, 2003 01:34 PM
Well thats all well and good. I was actually talking about a more linear collection. Like a Batman Archive would start at issue 408(i think right after Year One). While Superman would start with the Man of Steel Miniseries and include a few issues Of Superman right before that Darkseid crossover. Know what i mean? IP: Logged |
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friend Member |
posted April 15, 2003 01:38 PM
I think that the reason why there ain't much or any post crisis archives (?) is that a lot of the material is still availlable out there in second hand shop. Another reason is because in itself an archive sorta sells the preconcept of something old... To me that is... ------------------ IP: Logged |
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James Friel Member |
posted April 15, 2003 01:41 PM
I would buy few if any of these, but I'd have no problem with seeing it happen, unless they in some way (either by tying up editorial resources or by what DC or retailers perceived as competing for the same dollars) diminished the speed and likelihood of material from before 1970 being collected. If that's the case, then they can wait their turn. But I really don't see that there ought to be a problem there--relatively few people, it seems to me, would be deterred from buying a Golden Age or Silver Age volume by the existence of one from the '80s, and the editorial prep time for such extremely recent stuff should be minimal. IP: Logged |
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the ? Member |
posted April 15, 2003 06:21 PM
I would be strongly against this. I don't see how it could be accomplished without pulling resources from the Silver/Golden Age Archives. Besdies, the beauty of Archives is that it collects material not available elsewhere (or is at least very rare). I also have to say that if DC believed the material would sell in hardback, they'd be making them already. It's not as though Archives are the only hardcover collections.... IP: Logged |
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Wellington Member |
posted April 15, 2003 07:56 PM
Some of the post-Crisis stuff would make for nice trade paperbacks, and gets lost in the shuffle between the desire to publish as much Golden and Silver Age material and as much brand new material as possible. The Hush storyline from Batman is already getting a hardcover collection, not even midway through its publication, while George Perez's run on Wonder Woman is only now being collected. Byrne's Superman was one of the high points of his career, and would make for some great paperbacks, along with Wolfman and Ordway's Adventures. The introduction of Supergirl/Phantom Zone story would be a great collection, as would most of the team-ups from Action Comics, the landmark 600th issue of Action, the new Lex Luthor... Maybe I'm optimistic, but I think that these would (should) sell twice as well as the more recent trades with lackluster stories and so-so visuals. The first issues of Flash, Suicide Squad, and Norm Breyfogle's run on Detective have been relatively forgotten, and there are probably at least a few Giffen/DeMatteis Justice League trades that could be released. The Max Allan Collins issues of Batman have their moments, but I don't think that post-Crisis Batman hit his stride until Jim Starlin started scripting, around #414 or so... IP: Logged |
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vze2 Member |
posted April 15, 2003 08:52 PM
No one REALLY wants post-crisis Archives. Here's why: Legion Archives Volume 12 - $50 (excuse me, $49.95) In my opinion, most comics from the late 70s onward should not be candidates for Archives. If these comics are good enough to deserve a hardcover collection, make it an affordable one. I don't mind if a Silver Age Archive subsidizes a Golden Age one because both are bargains when compared to the original comics. However, I wouldn't want to pay $50 (even with a discount) for James Robinson's Starman or Bryne's Superman. If DC calls either of these an Archive and uses the Archive trade dress, the list price will be $50. IP: Logged |
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Joe Pacheco Member |
posted April 15, 2003 10:03 PM
Top choices for post Crisis Archives: 5 years later Legion of Superheroes That said, I don't think we really need too many post Crisis Archives. Even by 1985, comics were starting to focus more on story arcs and less on continuing stories. I wouldn't mind a sort of DC Signature line Featuring the best DC comics of the modern age in a standard HC trade dress. For example: Watchmen
IP: Logged |
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vze2 Member |
posted April 15, 2003 10:50 PM
We also had more crossovers, especially Crisis-type crossovers that make Arhiving more problematic. IP: Logged |
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Dr. Van Thorp Member |
posted April 16, 2003 01:31 AM
I think that part of DC's reason for doing archives is to build up a library of reproducable restored art from old stories for which the original art is lost. The archive sales pay for the restoration of the old stories which are DC's company heritage. The "archive" is as much for DC as it is for the comic buyers. The post-crisis stories are all available in the form of film that doesn't need restoration, so there isn't as much need, from DC's point of view, to produce archive books. There is also a certain prestige in producing these books. DC can point to the archives as examples of the earliest stories of the worlds best-known characters, from the world's oldest comic book company. Besides, would you be willing to pay $50 for comics that you could buy from back-issue bins for ten or twenty dollars? IP: Logged |
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NecessaryImpurity Member |
posted April 16, 2003 02:14 AM
quote: I see this arguement again and again and again, and it doesn't hold water. How many people here buy used books? If you don't, why not? Almost everything older than a couple of months can be found at a good used book store. Why pay full price for something new, when you can have a used version for dimes on the dollar? How many of you buy used CDs? If you don't why not? The same argument applies. You can find a used CD for a lot cheaper than a brand new one. What about DVDs and video tapes? More of the same. If you haunt the "back-issue bins", you can have a used version for a lot less than the same item in brand-new, deluxe packaging. OK, I'll wager that not a single person who read this post will answer "I never buy new books/CDs/DVDs". Every one of you has bought an expensive, brand new version of something, and most of you do it all the time. Some of you have NEVER bought a used book/CD/DVD. Why? The "quarter bins" are full of the same material; why not save yourself some cash? Answer: there's more than cash involved in a purchase. Other qualities enter into the equation. There is a market for a $50 version of stuff that can be had for $5. There always has been, and there always will be. IP: Logged |
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James Friel Member |
posted April 16, 2003 03:24 AM
It isn't a conclusive argument, NI, and in a perfect world it wouldn't have to be raised at all--but as I just posted somewhere else, I think we're in a situation where, since priorities have to be assigned (there not being enough time or resources to do everything worth doing), the relative availability to the public of two competing sets of material being considered as candidates for archiving is as legitimate a consideration as any other. We can't have everything we want. There's lots of stuff that would sell well. There's lots of stuff that is desirable. Given that, I'll usually take the rarer of two candidates, unless I'm already familiar enough with one of them to have more affection for it than for the other based on experience. IP: Logged |
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Lee Semmens Member |
posted April 16, 2003 06:55 AM
If people want to pay $50 for post-Crisis archives of comics that can be bought in a comic shop for about $10-15, that would subsidize MORE Golden or Silver Age archives annually, well that's up to them, and fine by me. Personally, I have never (and quite possibly never will) bought any post-Crisis comics in any format, apart from a few mixed in with GA or SA material in some TPBs. If I WERE interested in post-Crisis comics I would rather go out and purchase the originals, and use the savings (instead of buying expensive hardbacks) to buy more SA comics which are much scarcer. IP: Logged |
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vze2 Member |
posted April 16, 2003 07:42 AM
Back issues of modern comics aren't necessarily used. Many stores by extra copies so that they will have some in stock. Of course, many back issues are used. However, the used copies have the advantage of being the first edition. Lots of people collect first editions, although I am not one of them. To Kill A Mockingbird is currently available in several editions including a relatively high-end anniversary hardcover. I'm sure there is a market for the hardcover; I might buy it myself. However, if I could buy a first edition hardcover in good condition for less money than the anniversary edition, I would. IP: Logged |
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Ruiner Member |
posted April 16, 2003 10:59 AM
I'd rather buy a nice hardback than 6-10 old comics. It just looks better, don't you think? IP: Logged |
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the ? Member |
posted April 16, 2003 06:23 PM
But would you be willing to spend more to buy a hardcover rather than a softcover? Two or three times more? IP: Logged |
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the ? Member |
posted April 16, 2003 06:28 PM
I don't think this is the same as buying used books or CDs. It's a question of hardcover vs. softcover, and even more of actual production cost vs. inflated production cost. Would you be willing to spend an extra $15 for your Modern Age hardcover, to help cover the cost of STARMAN ARCHIVES #2? IP: Logged |
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Marty Raap Member |
posted April 16, 2003 06:32 PM
Absolutely, and I do it all the time. When I buy a regular book, for instance, I always buy the hardback rather than the softback, even if I know I'm not going to read the book until the paperback would be out. In fact, I'm a member of several book clubs that cater to deluxe high-end (read expensive) editions of classic novels. It's not that I'm rich or anything, I just know I'll be keeping these books all of my life (or at least the foreseeable future) and I'd rather have them be quality and look nice on my shelf for the next 25 years. Now, if you want to save money and buy paperback, more power to you. But there are certainly many people like me who would prefer a more expensive hardback to a paperback in a heartbeat. IP: Logged |
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Marty Raap Member |
posted April 16, 2003 06:36 PM
My last post was responding to the first "the ?" post; his second post came up while I typed. But in answer to the second post, yes, I would spend an extra $15 on a modern hardcover to cover Starman #2. Getting a Bronze Age or later annual, something like Firestorm #1 for instance, wouldn't bother me at all in terms of price if it was a regular $50 Archive. I might object on the grounds that there's other material I'd rather see Archived before modern stuff, but price wouldn't be the issue. In fact, if I could ONLY get Starman #2 if it was subsidized by a $50 Archive of Firestorm #1, I'd say bring on Firestorm! IP: Logged |
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dcexplosion78 Member |
posted April 16, 2003 06:38 PM
quote: The Starman Archives should have the inflated price being harder to restore. IP: Logged |
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NecessaryImpurity Member |
posted April 16, 2003 08:23 PM
quote: Yeah, but if DC priced each volume according to cost, your typical 1940s volume might be $60, your typical 1960s volume $40, and your typical 1980s volume $25. That sort of pricing will drive people away from the 1940s material, and would increase the sales of the newer stuff. How many of us would be willing to regularly pay the premium on the 1940s stuff? The end result would be that the 1940s material trickles to a halt because it's too expensive for the market. By using a set price across the line, a certain expectation is built into the customer. When a new book comes out, he doesn't discriminate by price; only by content. IP: Logged |
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Joe Pacheco Member |
posted April 16, 2003 09:38 PM
quote: Yes! I don't care about the back issues because the whole point is getting a HC! If people were as price focused as your quote sounds, I doubt they would have ever bought an archive in the first place. I may be reading into this, but I think that a lot of the GA & SA fans don't place a high value on Modern Age comics, regardless of collector's market price. Many of the people on this board don't read any new comics, so of course a $50 archive from 1990 will seem a like a waste. With comics at $2.25-$3 coverprice, $50 archives aren't that expensive. On top of that, if people are paying $25-$30 for 96 page HCs, there isn't any reason they wouldn't pay $50 for a 220 page modern archive. IP: Logged |
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vze2 Member |
posted April 16, 2003 10:23 PM
quote: In my opinion, every issue of James Robinson's Starman is better than every GA Starman story. Same for JSA and All-Star. Same for Ostrander and GA Spectre. In terms of quality, I think that the best comics are modern ones, although there are some excellent GA and SA titles that I would rank with, or at least near, the best of the modern comics. However, it is true that I place a low monetary value on these comics. Monetary value is determined by demand and scarcity. Virtually every modern comic will never be scarce. Let's flip the situation around. Pretend that EVERY comic is readily avaiable and affordable in every comic shop. How many people would spend $50 on GA Flash or GL? I wouldn't. Seeing these comic in hardcover istn't what's important to me. I just want to see them. I've never seen most GA comics and couldn't afford the ones I did see. SA titles are more affordable, but not cheap. The Archives (and microfilm) is my only way to read these comics. In my opinion, the best modern comics deserve to be reprinted in hardcover, but I see no reason for them to have the Archive trade dress or cost $50. IP: Logged |
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